The Church Growth Movement needs this.
Wednesday, April 25, 2007
Tuesday, April 17, 2007
Imagine
We in America have no idea, we need to fight diligently to continue to keep our rights as Christians and pray for these people.
Monday, April 16, 2007
More Questions about Modern Christianity
Admittedly, I have great concerns with what is happening to our Christian faith. Currently, I am reading The Purpose Driven Life, back in the fall of '04 our Church did it as a small group. I participated, but did not read the book. Since then I have learned a great deal about it. Here are some questions that I have about Purpose driven and the Message Bible.
1. On page 58 at the bottom, the Salvation message that Warren says is all you have to do is say "Jesus, I believe you and receive you". Is that it? Is there such thing as a false conversion? Can we come to Christ without first having a contrite heart and asking forgiveness for our sins?
2. Page 88 at the bottom, Warren says "The Bible says" He rules everything and is everywhere and is in everything."" Does Warren realize this is called Pantheism? If you are not aware of what Pantheism is look it up, very occultic and new age. Here is a better version of that verse "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." Note that last part, Paul is speaking to Christians, God is in us as Christians, not in everything or in everyone universally.
3. Warren uses the Message paraphrase (I say that loosely) many times in his book. In the Message look up the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13) Note the phrase As above, So below(this is the section in a normal Bible that would read "On earth as it is in heaven"). Google the phrase As above, so below. You will find many links referring to occultic overtones. Question, with this understanding, why was it inserted there, 1. the phrase doesn't fit, 2. Peterson is not dumb. On this note, Peterson is a promoter of Contemplative Prayer, the Christian version of Transendental Meditation.
Just a few questions I have about what is going on in our churches today.
1. On page 58 at the bottom, the Salvation message that Warren says is all you have to do is say "Jesus, I believe you and receive you". Is that it? Is there such thing as a false conversion? Can we come to Christ without first having a contrite heart and asking forgiveness for our sins?
2. Page 88 at the bottom, Warren says "The Bible says" He rules everything and is everywhere and is in everything."" Does Warren realize this is called Pantheism? If you are not aware of what Pantheism is look it up, very occultic and new age. Here is a better version of that verse "one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." Note that last part, Paul is speaking to Christians, God is in us as Christians, not in everything or in everyone universally.
3. Warren uses the Message paraphrase (I say that loosely) many times in his book. In the Message look up the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13) Note the phrase As above, So below(this is the section in a normal Bible that would read "On earth as it is in heaven"). Google the phrase As above, so below. You will find many links referring to occultic overtones. Question, with this understanding, why was it inserted there, 1. the phrase doesn't fit, 2. Peterson is not dumb. On this note, Peterson is a promoter of Contemplative Prayer, the Christian version of Transendental Meditation.
Just a few questions I have about what is going on in our churches today.
Tuesday, April 10, 2007
Are the lines being drawn?
Here is a video, and there are 4 of them on YouTube from a Church, ironically called Community Christian Church
From the series of video, I gather this, scripture is unimportant, and anyone who holds that view is strange. Also, being a christian is not the right way because we have a "different" standard and we are weird, let's be "Christ-followers". Folks, be careful here, the ignorant "Christ follower" could be following the wrong one. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, New Agers, The Islam faith, Buddhists, Catholicism and Hindu's all admire and follow Christ in one sense or another. It's the Christ in the Bible the one that traditional "weirdo" Christianity holds that is going to save us from our sins. Oh, I am sorry I shouldn't say that, someone might be offended, right?
Christian or Christ follower out there, take time to learn this stuff. Understand other faiths so that you can recognize it's deception when it enters the church. Know what Contemplative Prayer is, know that there is no such thing as "Christian Yoga", understand what is truly meant by vision casting and how it is tied to traditions of the occult for centuries. Deception is in the church, stay in God's Word and put on the whole armor of God.
From the series of video, I gather this, scripture is unimportant, and anyone who holds that view is strange. Also, being a christian is not the right way because we have a "different" standard and we are weird, let's be "Christ-followers". Folks, be careful here, the ignorant "Christ follower" could be following the wrong one. Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, New Agers, The Islam faith, Buddhists, Catholicism and Hindu's all admire and follow Christ in one sense or another. It's the Christ in the Bible the one that traditional "weirdo" Christianity holds that is going to save us from our sins. Oh, I am sorry I shouldn't say that, someone might be offended, right?
Christian or Christ follower out there, take time to learn this stuff. Understand other faiths so that you can recognize it's deception when it enters the church. Know what Contemplative Prayer is, know that there is no such thing as "Christian Yoga", understand what is truly meant by vision casting and how it is tied to traditions of the occult for centuries. Deception is in the church, stay in God's Word and put on the whole armor of God.
Friday, April 6, 2007
After that...
I need to follow up with music that actually Glorifies our Lord and Savior
Cry out to Jesus
God of Wonders
Hope you are bless!
Cry out to Jesus
God of Wonders
Hope you are bless!
You decide
One of these bands claims to serve the God of the Bible, the other openly serves Satan. Hmmmmmm
Being a Christian
One of the things I love about being a Christian is it gives me so many things to think about. The Bible is such deep book, so many life lessons. Recently, I had a struggle with music and morality. I come from the understanding that music has a deep influence on all of us spiritually. I personally think that a lot secular music has a spirit behind it. As Christians, we need to be careful what we take into our sensors(eyes, ears, mouth), meaning, we should carefully examine the music we listen to, the movies we watch, the video games we play, and the items that we eat and drink. Now, I will say that I firmly believe in Christian liberty, we have liberty with all these things as long as they are not strictly forbidden in the Bible.
Back to my music struggle, One of my favorite bands is Third Day, they are Christian rock, much in the vain of Black Crowes and Led Zeppelin style music. Here is my struggle, is all "Christian" music good? One side of me says no, the other side of me says that I am a hypocrite for saying no. I don't know if I agree that if the lyrics are right then the music is right. Let me make an example, there is a style of music called "Death Metal" it's inception was to be anti moral and more specifically anti Christian. Well, some Christians have copied that and made "Christian" death metal. There is a band called Zombie Gutz, they claim to be Christian, but listening to their music, I don't get it, I don't see it. Now, I am not that old, I grew up in the Heavy metal era so I don't think this is my opinion just because I am 34. So where is the line drawn, where does Christian liberty turn into just plain being the world? I think that Christian music must glorify God, this stuff glorifies flesh in my opinion. That is one of the reason's my I like Third Day so much, I know there they stand. I used to wonder at times in the past about the music that was labeled "Christian" because there was not glorifying God. My inclination was confirmed when I heard a radio interview with Steve Camp, any old timers remember him, he used to be in the CCM movement in the 80's and 90's and he said that much of it was about money and not about glorifying God. So I guess my final word on this is, test the spirits, make sure that we use Christian liberty wisely, if we are too loose with it, the end result could be sin. God Bless
Back to my music struggle, One of my favorite bands is Third Day, they are Christian rock, much in the vain of Black Crowes and Led Zeppelin style music. Here is my struggle, is all "Christian" music good? One side of me says no, the other side of me says that I am a hypocrite for saying no. I don't know if I agree that if the lyrics are right then the music is right. Let me make an example, there is a style of music called "Death Metal" it's inception was to be anti moral and more specifically anti Christian. Well, some Christians have copied that and made "Christian" death metal. There is a band called Zombie Gutz, they claim to be Christian, but listening to their music, I don't get it, I don't see it. Now, I am not that old, I grew up in the Heavy metal era so I don't think this is my opinion just because I am 34. So where is the line drawn, where does Christian liberty turn into just plain being the world? I think that Christian music must glorify God, this stuff glorifies flesh in my opinion. That is one of the reason's my I like Third Day so much, I know there they stand. I used to wonder at times in the past about the music that was labeled "Christian" because there was not glorifying God. My inclination was confirmed when I heard a radio interview with Steve Camp, any old timers remember him, he used to be in the CCM movement in the 80's and 90's and he said that much of it was about money and not about glorifying God. So I guess my final word on this is, test the spirits, make sure that we use Christian liberty wisely, if we are too loose with it, the end result could be sin. God Bless
Thursday, April 5, 2007
They like Jesus but..
The latest "hot" book to come out of emergent is They Like Jesus but not the Church. I have not read the book (I did read this article "I like Jesus but..")but have a good idea of what he has to say. Dan interviews many people of the younger generation to find out why so many are not going to church. I have heard a few interviews with Kimball and like a lot of what he has to say. Dan mentions that people admire Jesus as the following "Jesus is beautiful," "He is a wise man, like a shaman or a guru," "He came to liberate women." One girl even said, "He was enlightened. I'm on my way to becoming Christian." . But when asked about Christian's they had a lot of negative to say. Then Dan sections out the perceptions of the church that these folks have:
1) The Church is an organized religion with a political agenda.
2) The Church is judgmental and negative.
3) The Church is dominated by males and oppresses females.
4) The Church is homophobic.
5) The Church arrogantly claims all other religions are wrong.
6) The Church is full of fundamentalists who take the whole Bible literally.
Like I said, I didn't read the book so maybe Dan addresses this but is it possible that some of these stereotypes are portrayed by the media and our society as a whole? Let me make a point, This Article discusses a school in NJ that did a mock terrorist drill where the terrorist were fundamentalist Christians who were upset because their daughter was not allowed to pray in school. Are you kidding me? It's this type of propaganda that plants seeds in those who have never dawned the doors of a church and gives them this impression of Christians. Dan has a lot of good things to say about properly dealing with these impressions, like I said in a previous blog, we as christian traditionally have tried to "get the sale" and have not planted seeds in unbelievers, so I agree with what he has to say there.
Another issue that I have is that when you say they like Jesus but, and I think Dan addresses this, which Jesus? New Agers(or Spiritualist) admire him as Master, one who achieved "Christ consciousness", Buddhist and Hindu's view him as enlightened, Islam admire him as a prophet with Mohammad, not to mention the many Christian cult offshoots that view Jesus in a different light of what we have in scripture. This is why I keep contending that we need to know scripture so that we can contend for the faith when error comes our way.
I really want to get my hands on this book, I am sure I can learn from Mr. Kimball, especially as my little ones start their venture in this formerly Christian, post modern society.
"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. (Luke 14:26) I would bet they don't like this Jesus very much. I certainly have a hard time with this kind of message.
1) The Church is an organized religion with a political agenda.
2) The Church is judgmental and negative.
3) The Church is dominated by males and oppresses females.
4) The Church is homophobic.
5) The Church arrogantly claims all other religions are wrong.
6) The Church is full of fundamentalists who take the whole Bible literally.
Like I said, I didn't read the book so maybe Dan addresses this but is it possible that some of these stereotypes are portrayed by the media and our society as a whole? Let me make a point, This Article discusses a school in NJ that did a mock terrorist drill where the terrorist were fundamentalist Christians who were upset because their daughter was not allowed to pray in school. Are you kidding me? It's this type of propaganda that plants seeds in those who have never dawned the doors of a church and gives them this impression of Christians. Dan has a lot of good things to say about properly dealing with these impressions, like I said in a previous blog, we as christian traditionally have tried to "get the sale" and have not planted seeds in unbelievers, so I agree with what he has to say there.
Another issue that I have is that when you say they like Jesus but, and I think Dan addresses this, which Jesus? New Agers(or Spiritualist) admire him as Master, one who achieved "Christ consciousness", Buddhist and Hindu's view him as enlightened, Islam admire him as a prophet with Mohammad, not to mention the many Christian cult offshoots that view Jesus in a different light of what we have in scripture. This is why I keep contending that we need to know scripture so that we can contend for the faith when error comes our way.
I really want to get my hands on this book, I am sure I can learn from Mr. Kimball, especially as my little ones start their venture in this formerly Christian, post modern society.
"If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. (Luke 14:26) I would bet they don't like this Jesus very much. I certainly have a hard time with this kind of message.
Tuesday, April 3, 2007
My concerns with Emergent.
Over the past few years I have made an effort to understand some of the trends in modern Christianity. Not too long ago I had a mindset that if something had the label of "Christian" then it was good to go. I am not sure when it happen, but at some point a within the past few years I started to learn more about these trends and what they are all about. First, there was church growth, which has been around for quite a while with Robert Schueller and of course, Bill Hybels and Rick Warren, who took Schuellers concepts and have marketed and packaged them for any church to utilize. Then I learned of Word of Faith, blab it, grab it, I knew a lot of the teachers in this movement from TV and while I didn't care for them too much, I couldn't put my finger on why I didn't like it. It was sometime last year that I had a conversation with someone about it and I decided to look into it for myself. Finally, there is the emergent, as I mentioned in a previous post, I really like their sense of community and the personal love for other brethren. Now, here is where I lay out my concerns. Let me preface this first by stating that I understand that there are two sides here a liberal and conservative side I do not confuse the two. I also want to state that I am not bashing anyone personally, I do not know their hearts therefore I will not judge them in that sense. I will put up for debate some of the comments and actions that I witness.
Being the culture to reach a post modern culture. Meaning, swearing, drinking and accepting the postmodern concept of not knowing truth. I mentioned this before but, I think the Bible is clear that we are set apart; we are not of this world. Does that mean we need to be weirdo’s? No, I just think we need to be careful not to show too much conformity. I have heard the whole missional talk about speaking their language and how missionaries do it. Jesus hung out with sinners, right? Yes, however are any of us Jesus? Are we sinless or are we sinners that can be influenced by other sinners. We should be trusting that God and his scripture will change culture and not that Culture changes God's Message.
Experience Focus, we all need to experience God, right? Well, I have to ask, should our faith in Christ be on experience or should it be more on the truth of scripture? In a future post I am going to discuss some of the ways that Christians are experiencing God. Contemplative Prayer, Yoga, Labyrinths, Prayer Stations are all new ways that Christians are trying to experience God. For those who don't know a lot about this stuff Google it and research for yourself.
Minimizing the importance of scripture. The Post modern world that we live in says no one has absolute truth. As a result, the EC has taken this and says that everyone interprets scripture in their own way. We try to find what scripture means to anyone that is reading it and because we all have different backgrounds and experiences in life then the same scripture can be interpreted hundreds of different ways. Therefore, no one person can speak authoritatively on scripture. Instead of asking what does this scripture mean to you, maybe we should say what does God mean by this scripture? The fruit of this is the throwing out the baby with the bathwater; everything seems to be up for debate. We have people claiming to be evangelical, yet disagree with all the cardinal doctrines that the evangelical movement has stood by for several years.
Let's carefully examine what we read and what others recommend. I used to think that if I trust a person then I could trust anyone that they trusted. Try to examine both sides of a movement before accepting it.
Please share opposing views.
Being the culture to reach a post modern culture. Meaning, swearing, drinking and accepting the postmodern concept of not knowing truth. I mentioned this before but, I think the Bible is clear that we are set apart; we are not of this world. Does that mean we need to be weirdo’s? No, I just think we need to be careful not to show too much conformity. I have heard the whole missional talk about speaking their language and how missionaries do it. Jesus hung out with sinners, right? Yes, however are any of us Jesus? Are we sinless or are we sinners that can be influenced by other sinners. We should be trusting that God and his scripture will change culture and not that Culture changes God's Message.
Experience Focus, we all need to experience God, right? Well, I have to ask, should our faith in Christ be on experience or should it be more on the truth of scripture? In a future post I am going to discuss some of the ways that Christians are experiencing God. Contemplative Prayer, Yoga, Labyrinths, Prayer Stations are all new ways that Christians are trying to experience God. For those who don't know a lot about this stuff Google it and research for yourself.
Minimizing the importance of scripture. The Post modern world that we live in says no one has absolute truth. As a result, the EC has taken this and says that everyone interprets scripture in their own way. We try to find what scripture means to anyone that is reading it and because we all have different backgrounds and experiences in life then the same scripture can be interpreted hundreds of different ways. Therefore, no one person can speak authoritatively on scripture. Instead of asking what does this scripture mean to you, maybe we should say what does God mean by this scripture? The fruit of this is the throwing out the baby with the bathwater; everything seems to be up for debate. We have people claiming to be evangelical, yet disagree with all the cardinal doctrines that the evangelical movement has stood by for several years.
Let's carefully examine what we read and what others recommend. I used to think that if I trust a person then I could trust anyone that they trusted. Try to examine both sides of a movement before accepting it.
Please share opposing views.
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